Good points , althought Working in an industry where I have never been in competition with other women, I have certainly encountered a couple of ‘Queen Bees’ – Baby Boomers who did it ‘the hard way’ and are making damn sure everyone else has to too – interestingly the worst of them in HR. One of them stopped me setting up a series of ‘Managing your career through maternity’ workshops for my younger colleagues.

Another reason for not adopting healthy competition – The attitude of my (male) boss – I have been castigated for being ‘Aggressive’, ‘Greedy’ and ‘Negative’ – traits lauded in my male colleagues as ‘Forthright’, ‘Ambitious’ and ‘Realistic’ – for addressing behaviours, pursuing salary fairness and not being as ‘golly gee’ he expected me as a woman to be. Mind you, he still promoted me, but failed to address the fact that my two male direct reports are still paid more than me!

I have been very fortunate to work with amazing women and men that (other than one) do not resort to these types of behaviors. I have certainly heard about them from friends that work in other companies though. The one that plays these games I simply avoid or make sure I am very guarded about what I say when I am around her. Be careful ladies, the reason I know she does this is she’s gossiped about other people to me – if she’s talking about others to me then I assume she’s talking about me to others. I think she gossips to try to make a connection with people, but really it just makes us wary.

I have to believe that those that slander and attack another’s character are in fact shedding light on their own lack of substance and hiding their own insecurities. Although I do like to believe this, unfortunately, I also know that peoples’ impressions of you are sometimes based on only one or two exchanges. Some women that are more humble or soft spoken won’t toot their own horn and therefore, the petty remarks of others are the only thing that someone may hear. I haven’t quite found the answer to this one yet – other than to not add to the problem by making self deprecating remarks.

The worst one for me is the woman that truly believes the things she’s saying about others. She has created a *story* to help justify her own actions to herself and to make her feel superior. The reason this lady is so dangerous is that she has convinced herself that what she’s saying is true and therefore appears pretty reasonable to others.

This particular type of person you just need to do your best to eliminate from your life, and if that isn’t possible, to minimize your exposure to her or him. This type of person has their own self image and self worth resting on the *truth* that they are superior and right and that you are inferior and wrong. Therefore, they can’t admit to fault or another *truth* because of the blow that would have on their own self confidence.

In general though, I think that people are good people and don’t mean to do harm to others. If you see a friend making any of these mistakes, it would help them (and our professional image) if you helped guide them to better choices. This is a tricky slope to climb, but redirecting a conversation to positive feedback – finding one thing that is good about another – talking up a person’s strengths rather than identifying their weaknesses. All of that builds a better team and a better working environment for everyone involved.

I have seen the power of positive reinforcement, encouragement, and support on improving work environments and the professional image and demeanor of entire offices. It works.

Great discussion of these highly controversial topics, Maria! Thank you so much!

Daria

I’ve read similar articles to your post and similar comments. All-in-all I disagree because that has not been my experience. Yes, I have had negative interactions with women at work just as I’ve had negative interactions with men. As Grainne points out her competitive behavior was labeled negatively where a man’s competitive behavior was labeled positively and I think this article in many ways is doing the same thing. We can all find examples to fit stereotypes but until we stop perpetuating those stereotypes in the media, in articles and in blog posts I don’t thing the attitudes toward, in this case women, will change.

Also, if we talk about there being a certain # of management jobs for women vs. just a certain # of jobs, doesn’t that suggest that there are quotas and that women shouldn’t bother to speak up and compete for all the openings, even ones supposedly just for men? Perhaps I misunderstood you on this point. If I did, please correct me.

The culture of confiding (not gossiping) can build strong relationships. It can also create a better understanding about people’s behavior at work. Social media shows us the value of sharing personal stories to create a following and relationships. It helps to humanize a workplace that has dehumanized people for too long.

I think many women, and many men, need to speak up clearly and non-defensively for what they want. Cherry

I must admit I have been called aggressive, bossy, and bitchy. And, yes, I wasn’t doing anything differently than male counterparts that were praised for being assertive.

I have also been promoted and recognized as a leader within my company & industry because I do speak up, am decisive, and voice my point of view even when it’s not popular. But, they are the same people praising me in one breath and criticizing me in the next.

I think that this is a symptom/demonstration of the growing pains of our society to adjust our culture to the increasing power women are wielding.

Recent surveys show that more women are graduating from college than men. My generation is the last that will have baby boomers as direct supervisors. As much as we may want that to be inconsequential, it matters. That balancing beam between June Cleaver and CEOs of Fortune 500 companies is teetering. The external image is shifting, but as has been identified in these posts, and comments, it is our self image as women that needs adjusting also.

This is not a “sexist men” driven quandary. It is our American culture as a whole. Both men and women. I know I struggle with trying to do it all and be it all. I feel self driven pressure to be an expert in the boardroom and bake homemade bread after PTA and a soccer game that I may have even volunteered to coach. I can speak to the why’s but don’t know they matter as much as the discussion that it isn’t sustainable. Our culture is changing and we, men and women, need to look at ourselves and our personal beliefs and values to see what we are doing to inhibit that change.

We also need to recognize that change in and of itself isn’t good or bad. It just is.

Phew, this feels perhaps a little off topic, but the string of comments spurred me to think about this, so thought I’d share.

I think it’s interesting how some of us have experienced a lot of this in the workplace, and then there’s me and Daria, where it hasn’t been as much of an issue. I do think sometimes we are hard on women for not being supportive when we don’t do that with men. There’s an expectation that other women will support each other and when there’s a hint of competition, it’s like an act of disloyalty. Things get blown out of proportion when we don’t carry the same expectations for our male colleagues.

I also think there’s benefit to being blissfully ignorant. Because I haven’t experienced much gender discrimination, I don’t look for it and don’t expect it. I also don’t let it impact my expectations for advancement. I’ve always assumed I had as good or better chance of promotion than anyone else. So far, that’s been true. I wonder if some of it is “you create the world you believe in”?

Good discussion Maria!

I’ve had difficulties with other women in the workforce simply because I’m not like them. I’m more “male-like” and I don’t back down. I think they are intimidated by me, in fact, I know, often that was the case. I wasn’t into the gossip or the girlie talk or any other such nonsense. I was a go-getter and into the business end of things. I hated working with all women and I won’t ever do it again. I’d rather work with 50 men than 10 women, that’s just how I feel about it. I’m not into the snotty, nasty, bitchy attitudes. The backstabbing, the judgements. I want no part of that. I now work with men, they are my partners, and I love it.